247: How to Defer Capital Gains of ANY Kind!

Welcome back to the show everyone today my guest on Wealth Formula Podcast he’s been on our show before his name is Brett Swarts and he is the CEO of Capital Gains Tax Solutions which every year equips hundreds of business professionals with deferred sales trust tools to help their high net worth clients solve capital gains tax deferral limitations. His experience is very broad in the space including deferred sales trusts delaware statutory trust 1031 exchanges we’ll talk about all those he also has sort of front line experience as a real estate broker himself having done about 85 million dollars worth of transactions so he’s actually been down in the pits as well. Brett welcome back to Wealth Formula Podcast

Brett: Buck thanks for having me pleasure to be here.

Buck: Well it’s good to have you back lots of things changing and but I thought it would be a good time for us to you know kind of talk about you know the various options that people have at least currently and part of what we may discuss a little bit is if there’s anything changing or you know what what we think may happen with the new administration etc but why don’t we just start out a little bit just you know I want to get into the meat of it and you know use this as an opportunity to sort of educate broadly on this topic your business focuses on pretty much sort of a deferral or potentially sort of a practical elimination of taxes legally after some sort of liquidation event right isn’t that in a nutshell what you do correct yeah most high net worth individuals selling a primary home business cryptocurrency investment real estate they struggle with capital gains taxes it’s somewhere between 30 and 50 percent depending on the state and the depreciation recapture and so we use a deferred sales trust to give them a chance to what I like to call have a transformational exit plan and not using a 1031 exchange yeah so let’s go through the different options because you know I think it’s important to understand historically the concepts that are out there you know what’s appropriate because there’s still times with various different types of options are going to be appropriate and then you know and then kind of finish up with you know kind of what you do most of which is as I understand the deferred sales trust so the one that we know I think most people have heard the most about is the so-called 1031 exchange you want to talk a little bit about what exactly a 1031 exchange is.

Brett: Absolutely so 1031 exchange is a is one of the most popular and it’s a great tool to defer capital gains taxes on the sale of investment property there’s some rules you need to you need to buy like-kind investment property within 180 days of closing and so it’s very very very common for commercial real estate investors to use that of course there’s some inherent limitations and I like to call this more of the transactional type of exit planning where you’re just kind of trading one thing for another and it may or may not really transform what you’re truly looking for and I like to use the analogy book of blockbuster I don’t if you remember the days when you went to blockbuster and you had to return the movie within three days and if you didn’t rewind it you got a fee and even if you showed up the movie may not be there that’s kind of like the 1031 you have to typically overpay for properties you know sell high and buy higher 180 days later which is what our parents taught us not to do right talks to sell high buy low so the 1031 unfortunately puts a lot of pressure on a lot of clients and that’s where I’ve been personally with clients in the past and part of what happened in the 08 crash was people had overpaid and so the 1031 can be a big challenge for that.

Buck: Got it and so you know and some people may be trying to understand like okay well when would you really use a 1031 anyway and here’s an example we use it obviously a lot in real estate and particularly because we tend to depreciate our properties so much right so I’ve heard some people say oh you know with bonus depreciation you don’t really need a 1031 anymore well that’s not really necessarily true you know in some cases you may have a property that say you had a you bought for a million bucks you you know you took depreciation and your basis is down to like under 100 grand after 20 years or something crazy like that and the next thing you know you’re going to sell it for 5 million and so the problem in those situations is that if you sell it you’re not only paying the capital gains but you’re also paying recapture on all of that depreciation that that you’ve taken during that interim and that is one of the really powerful things about a 1031 fair yeah it is and so just to clarify just so your listeners know in a 1031 exchange your depreciation schedule travels which is not a good thing and so let’s say you’ve owned a multi-family property for 27 and a half years and you’ve taken straight-line depreciation you’ll have a zero basis at that point so if you were to do a 1031 the old way which is blockbuster your old scheduled travels which is not good the solution to that is what I call the netflix which is the deferred sales trust you can get a brand new depreciation schedule buying that same deal that you would have bought but if you just pit stop and stop on the trust then partner with the trust and buy that brand new depreciation schedule so that’s the way we really like to coach clients through.

Buck: I want to make and we’ll get there in a second but I want to give sort of a broad landscape first so that’s the 1031 and as you mentioned you carry that depreciation schedule with you which is not ideal but on the other hand you know the the real estate that the real estate motto on this has always been at least from the recent you know based on what tax law currently is is that okay I’m just going to keep 1031 exchanging because even though that thing essentially travels with me at some point I’m going to die and if I when I die then the basis resets that’s in a nutshell what that theory is right exactly drop until you swap right right swap until you drop swap until you drop exactly now a delaware statutory trust talk a little bit about that because I want to again I’m definitely going to get to your thing but I want everybody to know because all these things you know even delaware statutory trust gets confused with deferred sales trust because it’s dst it was dst right well which one so what’s a delaware statutory trust

Brett: Yeah so it’s just another form of a 1031. so it’s part of the irc section 1031. so I like to call it 1031 dsts right so essentially you’re selling your investment property typically a private investor who wants to get rid of the toilets trash and liability and you’re moving into typically a big group who has a it could be one two or three properties it could be more but generally they already have closed the assets and you can exchange your equity or interest into their deal some of the challenges you give up all control typically and typically it’s illiquid for seven to ten years typically very high in fees I’ve closed those for clients and they do serve their purpose especially if you have what’s called a mortgage over basis issue which we’re doing a partial delaware and a partial deferred sales trust coming up here in the next few days and so they have their place the key is what I like to talk about is selling high and buying low and too often these delawares are so highly priced cap rates are very low high fees but it’s a great way to defer capital gains tax because it’s just another form of a 1031.

Buck: Yeah and I will tell you in theory delaware statutory trust has lots of potential benefits and I say in theory because I’ve actually looked into some myself and the challenge is again not only are you it’s it’s not just that you’re buying at super compressed rates you are of course but there is my understanding goes and maybe you clarify this but the assets that are going in that there are some regulations with regard to like you’re not you’re not really allowed to do significant value out of real estate in this I mean you’re basically just you know buying you know assets that you’re not going to do much with and and and you’re going to pay for that and obviously there’s some fees and stuff which you know and if if an appropriate syndicator is involved and they can make you money you don’t complain about it but if they’re not really allowed to do much in these trusts in the first place those those are some of the issues that have made it you know potentially sort of less attractive to me the yields are not great etc but yeah I mean there’s certainly a that’s a a consideration and again you know and I think you’re going to get to this in more detail but when you have debt some of these things become more more valuable let’s go on then to the deferred sales trust this is what you’ve been wanting to talk about this is what you do this is what you believe in so how does it work tell me I want to use this as an example brad I am coming to you and I’m going to make it I’m going to make it a little challenging for you here because again most of most of our most of the people who are listening this podcast are real estate investors okay so I have a you know I have a five million dollar asset I have you know let’s say I’ve got I’m you know I’m selling let’s say I’m selling for five million but I’ve only got you know two million dollars of equity three million in debt all right I know what how 1031 works how would this work with the deferred sales trust why don’t you sort of take it you can describe what a sales deferred sales trust is first and then how this would work in this scenario great excellent so a deferred sales trust is just a manufactured installment sale it’s like a specialized installment okay so explain that because not everybody knows what an installment sale is.

Brett: So it’s where you become the lender and you allow the buyer to to to borrow from you so let’s imagine this five million dollar deal Buck which you own in this scenario you owe you a couple million dollars of debt you know three million dollars of debt in this scenario you could potentially loan the new borrow up to two million dollars okay that’s your actual equity in the deal and so you become the lender and in that scenario the buyer puts less of a down payment and therefore they get into the deal and on your side you get to defer the tax until you receive payments from that so with the deferred sales trust we’re just actually asking the buyer to come with the full five million closing and we’re asking them to to actually buy the asset from the trust and you’re in exchange gonna get an installment sale for the for the two million that was left over we’ll pay we’ll pay off your initial three to the bank so so debt doesn’t necessarily make this more difficult just so it depends on the basis so let me ask you that what what’s your basis on the deal million yeah you have what’s called a million dollar mortgage over basis so in that scenario we do need to replace that debt because what the government says is Buck if you close out on this deal or try to do a deferred sales trust you really already took that income you took that money out of that refinance above your basis therefore we’re going to taxes ordinary income but our solution to that is twofold either Buck you either pay down the mortgage to the basis or b we’ll do what’s called a buy fracture 1031. it’s really simple we move your two million dollar equity to a qualified intermediary okay and we purchase a partial delaware statutory trust I’m actually doing a deal right now for a client very similar he sold a 18 unit apartment complex in sacramento for about 2.6 and he has about a 500 000 mortgage over basis and so we found a delaware deal which has about an eighty percent eighty-two percent LTV so he’s going to take it eighteen percent of that five hundred thousand and he’s going to use that to replace the debt in the delaware so he has a little bit of equity into that deal and the remaining can go into the deferred sales trust the key here is we just replace the debt and that’s what a 1031 does that’s what the delaware 1031 does we replace the debt remember 1031 is equal or greater value and also equal or greater debt so as soon as we take care of that you’re good there and the rest of it can go into the deferred sales trust so that would be hopefully the short answer to your question.

Buck: So in that case would you net net end up without a tax bill.

Brett: Correct we call that a zero tax transaction right where you have you’re 100 tax deferral and the debt in this scenario is no longer in your name if you’re working with the correct delawares right so it’s non-recourse and so he’s happy there and for this particular client he’s a baby boomer he has over 50 million dollars of assets and he’s kind of drowning in the time of the energy to deal with california rent laws and eviction control which is going on which is very very challenging and so he’s just like Brett I’m just ready to retire from all this I have enough wealth I’m ready to be done how do I get out of this without getting hammered with tax and enter the deferred sales trust in the building.

Buck: So with those with those sort of partial delaware delaware statute trust partial deferred sales trusts basically on the the statutory trust side you have you’re gonna basically pass on a fraction of the equity and all of the debt to that e

Brett: Exactly got it

Buck: And then is there I mean can you really minimize how much actual money that goes actual equity goes into the delaware statutory trust

Brett: So the key is high LTV deals so the groups that we work with are some of the biggest in in the us for real owning real estate and so they they actually negotiate with amazon right one of the biggest companies in the world this high high debt deal right because they’re the tenant and they’re like basically you know they’re guaranteeing the lease right but they’re able to negotiate very very high LTVs and the key is just to replace that debt that’s really the key so the answer is high LTV deals which we already have lined up which we just moved right in so he’s he’s

Buck: Are you capped at the LTV of you know the of the dst then of the delaware statutory driver

Brett: Exactly so sometimes it could be it could be an 85 percent LTV sometimes in the past has been as high as 90 right now I’d say we’re like 85 to 82 percent LTVs.

Buck: Got it. Still not a bad deal so you could basically pay your mortgage down a little bit and you know put less in there or you could where you could basically you know just deal with you know whatever LTV component the equity component and just put that in a dst and maybe get your whatever your four or five percent.

Brett: Yeah on that 82 000. now it’s a zero coupon deal just so you know why because they’re just using all the cash flow to pay down the debt and so that would you wouldn’t need or want or not want the cash flow you couldn’t need it because you’re gonna have to pay it down but on the deferred sales trust side right that’s where things change but think of amazon is gonna pay off your debt over the next five 10 20 you know years however long it takes and then you’re going to be debt-free there and then you’re good you save 30 to 50 in tax right and then what happens when that statutory trust that seven years comes up they liquidate that so typically these delawares will will move you into another delaware you know a little 10 31 you out or you could 10 31 on your own right for that portion and do your own private deal just generally speaking depending on how the structure has been set up but the ones we work with generally will just you can roll into the next one or you can just take your take your take your capital take your equity and pay the tax but it wouldn’t be ordinary income tax demo right because your mortgage is now paid down to your basis right and so it would just be capital gains tax on what you’ve been deferring.

Buck: Got it and and presumably at some point it it you know when you’re paying down the debt at some point there it’s not a zero coupon deal anymore.

Brett: Correct it starts the cash flow right because that’s paid off right.

Buck: Right cool all right let’s talk a little bit about you know the types of assets specifically that you can you know you can use a deferred sales trust which is again this is sort of your you know bread and butter you know it’s a deferred you know you’re basically an installment

Brett: Absolutely and just to give a little bit of backstory just for the listeners in the context of this grew up in a real estate family bay area custom homes started working at marcus and miller chap saw the 0.506 market and all people overpaying taking on too much debt via the 1031s kind of like what we’re seeing right now very low cap rates very low inventory and just everyone too many too many too much money chasing too few of deals and fast forward 08 hit the music stopped and some of our clients lost everything some lost half and I had to help help them pick up the pieces negotiate with the banks re you know re reassess their marketing plan for their tenants and a lot of them I asked the question said why did it happen they said well I felt like it was trapped I was overpaying why because I had all this capital gains tax and I thought the 1031 was the only way and so that’s when I man my manager marcus milchat brought in a gentleman who’s my business partner to talk about the deferred sales trust and that’s where everything changed I implemented that strategy and my business exploded and grew and we can’t get the message out fast enough now we’re seeing kind of deja vu happening all over again with a lot of a lot of things so the essence of the deferred sales trust is like I said before it’s like a netflix and what’s neat about it is it can do multiple product types a 1031 only works for investment property whereas the deferred sales trust works for business sales works for highly appreciated public stock or private stock primary homes we just did an 8.3 million dollar deal for a primary homeowner in palo alto who had no way to sell the property because he had too big of a mortgage and too big of a tax he would have lost everything if it wasn’t for the deferred sales trust this did another deal in aptos california for 7.9 million she’s in her 70s and she’s looking at I don’t want to 10 31 I’m done with this she had a two and a half million dollar tax bill airbnb business has kind of been shut down with cobit so she’s looking around going this isn’t a good position for me so she sold paid off her debt which is also part of the transformational part of this you can be debt-free okay which leads into the next part you can be tax deferred as well as diversified and we think diversification is what the most important thing for high net worth especially baby boomers right now because they’ve made their wealth and they don’t want to go through a whole crash all over again and so what we do is we put them in the deferred sales trust the equity goes into this trust and at that point they can invest it wherever they like they can put into a syndication deal with Buck they could put it into their own private deal of their own they could put it in stocks bonds and mutual funds insurance products the point is no timing restrictions which is probably the most when they get it when they get it it they’re not taxed on the deployment because it’s seen as a loan exactly right they just carried back 100 financing for the trust so the deal we just did in aptos that was about a six million dollar equity they paid about a million off million million nine of debt and they just have a promissory note written to them for six million typically they’re structured eight percent based upon their risk tolerance compounding over a ten-year period of time not guaranteed but then as a team with my business partners we try to find the best commercial real estate syndicators and operators and financial advisors to manage the money now client note holder has to approve everything okay and then funds don’t move without their their their their approval but then we go to work to try to out earn our fees and try to net them eight percent which is typically around nine and a half percent over a ten year period of time in the meantime they have no more debt they’re liquid if they want to stay in stocks bonds and mutual funds they’re diversified and then the best part is they can buy real estate at any time and what I like to say is Buck sell high and buy low and in minnesota a gentleman did this in 2006 and he sold a 20 million dollar asset across the street from the minnesota biking stadium and he was looking around for a 1031 he’s worth a couple hundred million dollars didn’t make any sense so he did the deferred sales trust for the first time five years later that same property he sold Buck he bought it back from the bank out of foreclosure but he bought it back at 60 cents on the dollar 40 discount and oh by the way with a brand new depreciation schedule using his deferred sales trust money all tax deferred that’s a big big big statement but if you follow those things you quickly see how this is becomes a transformational exit plan for clients but also what we believe the best way to create and preserve more wealth because of that timing aspect of this okay second part of it you can delay the payments think of it like a 401k right now taxes are set to go up depending on if biden gets the tax plan passed and it could take a year or two to get done but if that happens you’re going to want something that can delay payments the deferred sales trust you don’t have to take any payments from it you can turn off the spigot and therefore your net income is the same versus other assets that you might have to take cash flow from you may not have any depreciation to offset it therefore you’re having to pay tax what I want you to think about is like selling a five million dollar asset that’s maybe producing let’s say 250 000 per year and you have no depreciation on it so you’re having to pay tax on that 250 moving into the deferred sales trust delaying those payments fast forward in two or three four years you find a deal that makes sense you invest into that deal you get a brand new depreciation schedule and now you start taking some payments because you can offset with the depreciation so we’re going like dst 2.0 but these are all the things that we help clients map out.

Buck: What’s the minimum size transaction that makes sense for a deferred sales trust?

Brett: One million dollar net of all closing costs for the sale of the of the asset and then at least 200 to 250 000 of liability deferred liability not being confused with gain your gain is probably going to need to be somewhere between let’s say five and six hundred thousand dollars and then the net equity needs to be about a million to equal a deal that makes sense and why because we have fees and we want to make sure that your return on your investment makes sense which we use the rule of 72 which states if we can earn seven percent over a ten year period of time we can double that amount of money so let’s imagine it’s a five million dollar deal it’s earning seven percent net of fees in ten years you didn’t take any distribution Buck guess what that five becomes ten million if you did that again that 10 becomes 20 but most of our clients will live off the interest payments and they’ll pay ordinary income tax along the way but they’ll keep that principle intact okay right and that’s part of how we map that out we work with your tax professionals to perfect that.

Buck: You mentioned one thing that wasn’t clear about it and you mentioned individuals using this strategy for their homes. So you could actually do this on a personal residence?

Brett: Yes you nailed it right. So one of the best deals ever was a 26 million dollar primary home sale in newport beach couples getting a divorce they cannot do a 1031 they’re faced with a 6 million liability and so they used the deferred sales trust to save 6 million so what I do is I actually train and coach luxury realtors on how to do this to win more listings but it’s transformational for the client whereas a 1031 does not work for a primary home the government gives what’s called a 121 exclusion which if you lived there to the last five years you have 250 single 500 married but above and beyond that you have no other tax strategy except for a charitable remainder trust or a deferred sales trust that we really like and you could potentially do an opportunity zone 2 with that but the 1031 is only for investment property which would mean you need to move out of property rent it for two years and then 1031 into something which most folks just don’t want to do.

Buck: Yeah so in that scenario it’s interesting was what you could do and obviously I live in here and I live in Montecito California so that’s a real problem for a lot of people.

Brett: Can I tell you about a deal that just closed in montecito?

Buck: Sure

Brett: Well he’s a big-time actor. His name is rob Lowe and he’s now a business he’s now a client of my business partner and it was about a 45 million dollar primary home sale and he he was very skeptical like most people are he hired three attorneys and they were in the bay area and he said hey poke holes in this thing he paid him a lot of money okay and they couldn’t poke any holes in and he closed on the deferred sales trust and so you can look that up look up montecito for I think was forty four and a half million dollar primary home sale but that is that is we think is the the lowest hanging fruit california highly appreciated primary homes folks have been there for 10 15 20 years right and they feel trapped in their homes we’re doing another deal in atherton right now for a nine and a half million dollar sale for a primary homeowner so yeah that’s a big one if you have a primary home you should call us right away.

Buck: That’s very cool. One other thing that makes so I know a lot of people in my group because we have a lot of we do a bunch of real estate syndication we have a bunch of you know pretty pretty wealthy individuals who are making sizable investments if you say if you have a capital gain with recapture as a limited partner in a real estate syndication do you have any options?

Brett: Yes we just did two deals one in phoenix and one in nevada it was a syndicator who sold a 20 million dollar asset and he had you know 20 or 30 investors now those 20 or 30 they had smaller 50 100 150 000 investments and but his was larger and he and his partner so as a gp they’re able to do their own deferred sales trust without having the whole entity move which is typically what has to happen in the 1031 this is why most syndicators don’t allow 1031 in and they do not 10 31 out because not everyone’s going to agree so what’s unique about it is they put those amounts into their own deferred sales trust to pay the rest of their investors back they did another deal 16 million deal in phoenix same thing put it into the deferred sales trust and then just yesterday or tomorrow they’re funding a an acquisition in texas of which they took about 50 percent of the money that went into the deferred sales trust as a as a silent partner on the side with them and so they use the funds all tax deferred to when they sold their asset and now to buy more so the answer is absolutely that’s probably the one I’m the only success.

Buck: The only thing the only the question though is that most of the people we’re talking about are on that lp side that limited partner side and some of them you know we we have investors who are in you know half million million dollars in a deal and then they’ll be in a portfolio that gets sold boom all of a sudden they’ve got you know they might have a two million dollars

Brett: Oh it works for them they can work for LPs or GPs just to clarify I’m just saying most the time again unless they’re hitting those numbers now right they may have a 500 000 deal Buck and then they have another 500 000 deal we’ll still do the deferred sales trust because those two combined will hit that million dollars. So just realize but if it’s just a one-off deal at 300 000 or 200 would say it’s too small yeah if you have a couple of these or different assets you can form one trust and just keep rolling the funds into it but it absolutely works for LPs as well as GPs.

Buck: That’s something a number of you should note you know especially if you’re investors in some of our you know wwc stuff and you’ve got an accumulation in one of our markets of you know a million two million dollars you know a lot of times we’re selling seven or eight properties at a time and so you you could very well be hitting those kinds of situations so that’s very good to know you know before we before we go I do want to talk a little bit about other options and we it and it’s funny because we were talking offline unfortunately you know I have one of my listeners I’ve been listening to and she’s a really smart entrepreneur and I hope she doesn’t mind me mentioning this but she you know she ended up with a you know a big big partial sale of her business ended up with 10 million bucks in cash and then we were trying to figure out what to do now certainly she could have used one of these she could have used a deferred sales trust and that would basically solve your problem is that right?

Brett: Correct we’d have to do it before close of escrow all continues have been removed so timing is of the essence here by the way we don’t charge anything unless and if someone does a deal yeah once it hits the personal bank account that’s what’s called actual receipt it’s too late for us if you’re in a 1031 exchange we can save a failed 1031 exchange because it’s not in your hands right it’s with the qi but yeah remember that’s the investment property so yeah business sales you definitely need to be beforehand primary home sales definitely beforehand and we need to set that up ideally a couple weeks at least but definitely before the buyer removes all contingencies.

Buck: Got it. You know the other thing we were talking about is the only other option I can think of for these high capital gains individuals are in opportunity zones we probably should just mention that for completeness it sounds like neither you nor I are huge fans of opportunity zones do you want to explain what an opportunity zone is and kind of some of the problems that there are there?

Brett: Yep it’s another viable opportunity to defer capital gains tax like a 1031 or charitable remainder trust or delaware statutory trust of course a deferred sales trust those are kind of the five that we really focus on but we really geared towards the deferred sale trust and the biggest reason is timing right just like the reasons we don’t like a 1031 we don’t like a lot of the opportunity zones because you’re selling high right and then 180 days later you need to park the funds into this this this fund and oftentimes those funds are in locations that aren’t as desirable and then b the values have already been propped up because they’re in an opportunity zone and so you’re looking at you know just buying higher the next thing is you’re typically tied up for 10 years if you want the really the full benefits of the of the opportunity zone so you’re ill-liquid you’re also not diversified you’re typically with one group maybe two groups I mean one or two deals and so you lose oftentimes lose control right and so it’s just really not I think a good time now five years ago Buck opportunity zone with prices where they were with value add real estate hey I love that right the other thing about the opportunity zone is typically it’s construction ground up because you’re gonna have to basically double the amount you paid for so if you bought a 10 million multi-family property that was going to be a value-add deal guess what you need to put another 10 million on top of that so that kind of takes that out of the out of the realm but you have to buy something that’s very very either construction or it’s a tear down so there’s just a lot of reasons why I haven’t seen.

Buck: You still have to pay the piper at some point right?

Brett: Now you have seven years to get back the original amount right and hopefully your fight dance at that point and any growth and then you get some you get some 10 you know knockoffs along the way so there are some things there but again I just don’t like overpaying I don’t like having diversification I don’t like having to have the timing not on my side because time Buck is the one thing we can’t back get back we can make and break money make and break businesses and deals but we can’t get our time back and so when you can do something that allows you to have time and energy at your own time your own motivation your own needs like the deferred sales trust we just think you know it just far outweighs the the the pros of the of the opportunity zone.

Buck: I’ll just add to that in that you know my biggest issue with this really I think echoing what Brett said is that you know you’ve got these these ozs these qualified opportunity zones they were you know there was a lot of hype on these things and immediately what ended up happening is these areas that were you know that were that qualified and they qualified because they were not very nice areas the whole idea is to try to you know try to turn these communities into decent communities but the the the the whole opportunity got you know the opportunity zone part of it got priced into the property right away and and so it sort of essentially took out the value of investing in an area and trying to make it better because you’re already overpaying for it as if it is in a better area and the other thing is that as Brett mentioned it was ground up construction so there’s inherently a lot more risk in this stuff and to me you’re essentially taking you know hard-earned money that you had a nice liquidation event and putting into something that is in essentially in a you know like a d-class area it’s construction and you’re banking on you know appreciation over a very long period of time I mean in that situation I mean frankly I’m i’m probably gonna personally just you know try to decrease how much I you know try to overpay expenses for the next year in something and then take a hit on capital gains because I’m not really into that I mean you’re certainly much better off with what Brett’s doing for that kind of thing but the key here again is that you have to plan ahead in all of these things the money can never touch your hands it has to go to the intermediary and I think the the the thing to do is if you get in these situations call Brett if you think that there’s an opportunity where you may be getting a million two million dollars of profit at least and you want to figure out how to if there’s an opportunity to not pay you know taxes by using this tool at least contact them so with that Brett how do we get ahold of you?

Brett: Thanks Buck appreciate it. You can go to capitalgainstacksolutions.com if you are a high net worth individual and looking. Y you can also search that on youtube we have our podcast Capital Gains Tax Solutions which I believe you’ll also enjoy as well and if you’re a professional like a luxury realtor a commercial real estate broker syndicator or financial advisor you can go to experttaxsecrets.com and you can learn about how to use the deferred sales trust to add massive value for your clients and grow your business.

Buck: That was expert tax what was that?

Brett: experttaxsecrets.com

Buck: Okay got it very good Brett thank you again for being on a Wealth Formula Podcast and I’m sure we’ll have you on again in the near future

Brett: Thank you Buck. My pleasure.

Buck: We’ll be right back.